how to never date a nice guy again (maybe)
this is what happens when you start watching a Korean reality dating show
I never thought I’d be so deeply called to write something because of a Korean reality dating show on Netflix.
But alas, God works in some weird fuckin ways I guess. [shrug]
A couple of months ago, and I wish I could remember how, my friend got me to start watching Singles Inferno, a Korean reality dating show.
I don’t like reality shows, at all. I find them cringey, the people insufferable, and...actually, that about covers it.
But this show. Fuck me, I actually like it.
The contestants are polite, the show isn’t edited like a 45 minute long Tik-Tok, and the most scandalous thing that occurs is two contestants interlocking their index fingers.
(It genuinely was an ‘oh shit!’ moment)
Fuck, I’m getting off track here.
This post isn’t about the show!
While watching the show, my friend was most annoyed at one of the guys I nicknamed Caveman. She said she couldn’t stand guys like him, guys like her ex.
I shrugged it off and told her “Eh, he’s a nice guy. That’s their MO.”
She said, “But why couldn’t he just tell her the truth?! Why couldn’t the fucker just tell her no up front?!”
“It’s because he legitimately didn’t know until much later. He was processing it as fast as his psychology could handle.”
She didn’t know what I meant so I spent the next hour or so discussing with her the Nice Guy psychology, making sense of her ex, and breaking down the timeline of Nice Guy relationships not so that she could have more empathy for them but so she could learn to recognize them before it’s too late.
By the end, she said she finally understood the relationship with her ex and how it wasn’t her fault how it ended, that that’s just how it was going to end up given the setup of it.
I say this for a couple of reasons:
1) It’s further proof that I should’ve bought the domain benweston.guru
(Still might)
2) Because there’s little to nothing out there on these relationship dynamics with Nice Guys.
I looked. It’s shit.
Most of it was on how to avoid toxic, narcissist men, how to make yourself a high value woman, or even on the other end of the spectrum, how to be more compassionate and forgiving with men.
The dumbest was when all advice was reduced down to just: “Ladies, if he wanted to, he would.”
Jesus christ.
And even the people that did have some semblance of nuance, were only dishing out solutions to treat the symptoms. The women on the receiving end would come away with the “expert solution”, but not understanding why they will continue to find themselves in the same situations, attracted to the same guys, and making the same choices.
There is no understanding of why their current configuration of life is going to keep giving them the same shit.
So I ended up writing a document on the matter.
I initially wrote this just to organize my thoughts on the topic and get it out of my head.
But on the chance that it provides a quick, reassuring roadmap to some women, I’ve included it below.
I say quick because nearly every paragraph, every concept in the document corresponds with pages of written but unpublished content.
This is more of an outline.
A proof of concept for benweston.guru ;)
Nice Guys
Let’s talk about ‘em.
We’ll start with a brief overview of Nice Guy relationships, Nice Guy psychology, and then how to navigate the confusion and low hum of dissatisfaction that characterizes being with them.
Shall we?
Nice Guy Defining Traits
- Highly empathetic
- Highly agreeable
- Friendly and easy to talk to
- Emotionally attuned to all around him
- Highest values: empathy, compassion, openness
Nice Guy Relationships
Stage 1: The Courtship
He love bombs you. He’s emotionally intelligent and empathetic, aware of what you’re thinking and feeling. He’ll come in with thoughtful, sweet texts. Make dinner for you. Send you gifts. Whatever your love language is.
It feels safe. It doesn’t feel clingy or desperate.
He’s giving you just the right amount of space while making clear that you’re on his mind.
It’s the Goldilocks love bomb - just right.
Stage 2: The Golden Era
The love bomb is still raining down.
He’s attentive, affectionate, and a great emotional support. He’s always available to listen, give space, show that he understands, and reassure your tender, insecure spots.
You feel validated, supported, and seen.
Stage 3: First Signs of Trouble
1. You find it difficult to know what he actually wants.
When asked if he wants to do something, “I don’t know” and “maybe” often mean no. And if he does say yes, it’s hard to know if he genuinely wants to or if he’s just saying it to make you happy.
2. He goes through intense depressed states, that stand out in stark contrast to what is usually a bright baseline demeanor.
He may talk of feeling drained and needing more alone time, more space to recharge. He has less energy for you and seems to be less and less the guy you initially met.
Nice Guy Psychology
The behaviors that initially made him attractive are also the very reasons why the relationship dynamics inevitably break down.
It can be easy to say that he just needs to “say no” or “make stronger boundaries” for himself. But given his psychology, the solution isn’t so simple.
What do you actually want?
When confronted with needing to make a choice that may disappoint you, his thought process can sound something like this:
I don’t want her to feel bad if I say no. If she doesn’t like my decision, will she be disappointed in me and think less of me? Will her happiness be greater than the discomfort it will cause me? How important is it to her? Will I feel guilty if I don't do this for her? I kind of don’t want to do it, but maybe I should be open to it. I can see why she’s asking me to do it. Seeing her happy would feel good too and it wouldn’t take that much out of me to do it.
So asking him if he wants to do it, regardless of how it will impact you, doesn’t fit in his decision making matrix.
Your happiness or disappointment is a large percentage of what goes into whether he genuinely wants something.
Trying to extricate the two from one another is near impossible in his psychology.
It’s frustrating, but this aspect of his psychology is also what compels him to give you the particular emotional support and validation that initially made him attractive. He is always feeling into what hurts you and what will make you feel good.
It’s a package deal.
The Slumps
Because his system operates by primarily focusing on and responding to you, there is little attention left to give to his own internal world.
His psyche needs a mechanism to counterbalance this unnatural baseline.
This often comes in the form of periods of depression or an ever increasing need for alone time to handle the backlog of emotions.
Because when he's with you or anyone else, he can not fully access his own independent thoughts, emotions, and desires.
You can not take the Nice Guy, slap on a few behavioral tools to help with strong boundaries and depression, and keep the rest that you like.
The Nice Guy archetype is not just a set of behaviors but rather an entire operating system that rests on a bed of cultural values held up as ideal i.e. compassion, empathy, openness, niceness.
Values like compassion can be good but only when genuinely warranted. Pursued in and of themselves — because "more is better” — creates the dysfunction seen in Nice Guys.
Empathy is good until you can no longer feel your own thoughts and emotions.
Compassion is good until you begin excusing manipulative behavior.
Niceness is good until you can’t speak the truth.
The reality is, the Nice Guy operating system can not last. What it offers and readily gives is not sustainable.
Two Paths
From here, Nice Guy relationships tend to go one of two ways:
1) He continues to need and ask for so much space, you’ve essentially already split up.
This is a good thing.
Although he is unlikely to be able to articulate it, he’s noticing that he can think and feel more clearly on his own and therefore choosing to prioritize that vs. perpetually tuning in to others.
Ideally, this is the beginning of his Nice Guy psychology crumbling.
The cost of it, however, is that he can not do it while in relationship with you. Attempting to systematically unravel his core life paradigm while simultaneously relating to you in the ways that once brought you two together is an impossible task.
2) The second, and more common route, is that you two remain together. He struggles to give the levels of attention and affection he once gave while you hold out hope that you two can “figure it out” together.
It’s not horrible, nor particularly fulfilling. It’s a relationship of quiet discontent.
Where This Goes
At this point, the next question is usually: "How do I avoid or get out of these Nice Guy relationships?"
The mainstream advice would be to understand your attachment style, analyze your early childhood trauma, and work on better communication of your needs and boundaries with your partner.
The problem is, you'll still find yourself genuinely attracted to Nice Guys and back in the same cycle of confusion and ambivalence.
The following is the actual progression out of Nice Guy inferno.
Stage 1: Spot it and slot it
In order to understand the confusion and frustration that comes from being with Nice Guys, we first have to discuss the relationship between narcissists and Nice Guys.
Although one is considered to be more or less good and the other bad, both archetypes operate using the same mechanism: they tune in to your feelings and desires then cater their behaviors accordingly to create the desired outcome.
There are differences of course between the two archetypes.
- The narcissist is more selective in who he turns his attention towards whereas the Nice Guy's empathetic attunement is directed toward everyone, to make everyone around him feel seen and validated.
- When the narcissist's persona breaks, you'll be met with aggression and gaslighting. With the Nice Guy, he'll more likely fall into depression or martyrdom.
- The primary difference of course, is that the narcissist knows what he wants independent of you, whereas the Nice Guy's desires are intertwined with yours, with making you feel good.
In many ways, the narcissist is the evolved form of the Nice Guy. He employs the same empathetic skills but toward his own self serving ends.
The reason for making the connection between both archetypes is to clearly identify what they are both doing — manipulating. Regardless of how well intentioned the Nice Guy may be, it is still manipulation.
This is what creates the confusion in Nice Guy relationships.
Why can't I tell what he actually wants or doesn't want? Because he's too preoccupied feeling into and responding to you to know what he wants.
He was once so attentive but now needs all this alone time? Because that initial persona wasn't meant to last.
That confusion you feel is an indication that something is off, that something about what he's presenting is not what actually lies beneath.
Stage 2: Good guys and bad guys
In the beginning it's helpful to be able to slot guys into neat categories: the narcissist, the nice guy, the simp, etc.
You'll come across guys that are purebreds of each archetype, hitting all the characteristic check boxes. You’ll learn to spot their red flags: what they say, how they behave, and how they feel to interact with.
But now comes the hard part.
What do you do with the people that don't neatly fit into these archetypes, the non- purebreds?
With a raging narcissist or a pushover nice guy, it may be easier to draw a hard line. But what of the guy that only mildly reeks of Nice Guy, that only has 58% of that DNA active in him?
You may be able to recognize some of the Nice Guy patterns in him, but he's still got other attractive qualities.
This leads to stage 3.
Stage 3: I know, but...
You're going to be spending a lot more time interacting and being in relationship with Nice Guys before you’re done with them.
And it isn't a bad thing.
You're still refining your discernment skills, spotting the red flags, slotting the sensation of being emotionally manipulated, and identifying the false personas.
You're learning to trust those internal cues. Whereas before you may have needed to go through a long and heartbreaking relationship to see through the dynamics, next time it may be just a few weeks or days before you can clearly see how it plays out.
You'll start seeing what it's like to be with someone that isn't a pure bred Nice Guy, to play out the Nice Guy dynamics but on a more subtle level.
Eventually, you'll start to see the cues from a distance and have had enough lived experience to know how they end, such that you won't need to play them out again.
But all this comes from being around more Nice Guys. Because right now, even with this understanding and the ability to spot it, you're internal dialogue will sound something like this with Nice Guys:
"Yeah I guess, but you never know.”
“It’s not that bad. We can work through it.”
"I know...but he’s so tall!”
And that's normal.
But if and when you feel like you've gotten everything you wanted out of your experiences with them, you'll have your own understanding of why.
Wrapping up
With all that’s been shared here, remember that nothing needs to be done about it right now. With time and experience will come greater clarity such that any action that’s meant to be taken will occur naturally.
(And not because a TikTok “dating coach” said so.)
What’s changing is not just surface level tactics but rather your map of the world and how you engage with it.
That shit takes time.
If you feel you’re in a good place right now — perfect.
If you feel uncomfortable but can’t pinpoint exactly why — even better. That discomfort is the very mechanism driving you forward. It’s the discomfort of slowly changing who you are in the world, in ways you can’t quite see yet.
Either way, you’re good. Really.